Dumps and other valves

[fatdaddy]

US sourced valves will be Delta or Oil Systems............... or Chinese copies 

Both the genuine things are available in UK. The valve and coil will be identical but chances are the US blocks  will be made in house by the better suppliers [PH/BM/CCE] so blocks you get in UK wont be interchangeable.
For me Delta valves are better for our uses. They are imported by Related Fluid Power.
The traditional "dump" is a "solenoid operated normally closed poppet valve". The Delta code for the one you want is PB-S2A.
You want a 12 volt coil. US coils will come with two leads, standard UK option will be spade connectors.
US blocks will be 3 ports and with NPTF threads. UK standard will be 2 port and BSP thread.
Specifying the UK standard for all options will normally give you a lower price an an off the shelf item.

If you use  a two port block you will use a tee fitting with it  to achieve the same as a 3 port block.

The full order code for a dump [no UK supplier or dealer will know what you mean by "a dump"] with two 3/8BSP threaded ports, 12v coil with spades is

PB-S2A-00-DS12-B2A
[if you want to specify a three port block the last bit of code will be B3A]

If you want a lock valve to go with an accumulator you need a spool valve [a poppet valve only seals one way]. You have a choice of "normally closed" or "normally open" depending on how you want the acc to work.
You can just have a switch to urn the acc on [smooth] or off [crunchy], in this case you want a normally open valve [so when you switch on to pass 12v to the coil the acc is isolated].
An option is to have the acc controlled by your ignition. Use a relay so that when the ignition is on [so you's be driving] the coil gets voltage from your car battery. With a normally closed valve this will automatically give you "smooth" when you drive and "crunchy" when you are parked. You can add an on/off switch to the relay earth if you want the option of "crunchy" when you are driving.

Order codes same as above but starting
PB-S2G [normally closed]
PB-S2H [normally open]

NOTE  run dumps at 24 volts, run accumulator valves at 12 volts. If you are running a system at more than 24volts still tap off the dump voltage at 24v.
 
www.relatedfluidpower.co.uk

[fatdaddy]

Why not use a manifold?

Can look neater if that's what you like but it WILL restrict performance. Remember this whole topic is about sourcing a "Lowrider system" not just "hydraulics".
Separate dumps,checks and slow downs will allow the best flow for both lift AND drop [bearing in mind that drop may be onto heavy coils when hopping].
If you don't need a "Lowrider system" read the start of my "Decide what you want" post again.   

[Tony100]

Gettin a price on the folllowing sooon

5 dump manifold  (normal pumps)

3 dump manifold ( normal pumps)

4 dump manifold ( Tipper stlye pumps)

2 dump manifod  ( Tipper stlye pumps)

Single Dump

[fatdaddy]

manifolds are no use in  a Lowrider system...................................

[Tony100]

Why may i ask??

someone has a tipper pump and wants a manifold..? theres a guy in the states using manifolds hydroholics ?

heres a pic of his manifold ??




Thease seem to work very well

[fatdaddy]

they probably do. I made and sold similar units in early nineties but these are optimised units designed and madefor hydro rides NOT off the shelf industrial manifolds. Mine could take the combined flow of four 24volt pumps and point it to whichever corner you wanted or all corners and cope with chipping pressures............... off the shelf units just  wont cut it as i've said all over this thread.
I've also explained here and in Rus' whip thread why even greatly experienced Hydro suppliers and engineers cant understand how we use [and make work!] custom systems.
If you want to get off the shelf tipper units just go for it, you don't need advice from here your supplier can tell you what thye think will do.

Tony..........look at the start of the first post in the first topic of this thread.

This isnt about sourcing normal hydros, this is about systems for LOWRIDERS

anyone can buy industrial stuff or make do with tipper units and they'll end up with a car that moves. Thy don't need me, or anyone, to tell them how/where to do that and there is already a source in UK that will sell them a suitable system with ready tailored rams etc.

This thread is about sourcing equivalent to US sourced hydros that will cope with the stresses of REAL movement and high voltages

[teamrod]

this is a great topic/info etc. good work

[fatdaddy]

tony...... tell me what you expect a 5 dump manifold/pump combo to be able to do ?

[Tony100]

The concept is simple: 1 dump valve for each corner, and 1 valve that returns the fluid back to the pump reservoir. When you want to lift the front, the rear valves are activated allowing fluid to rush in, and since the valves are open the fluid cannot build pressure in those areas and rushes to fill all non-open areas thus in this case lifting the front. When lowering the car, the pressurized valves PLUS the 5th return valve is activated.

System capabilities: This setup will allow front (up/down), back (up/down), sides (up/down) and any corner(s) to be lifted from a pancaked position (corners require individual 12-prong switches).

Important note: As the manifold works on weight of the vehicle, pancakes up or down speed/priority corner are determined by unbalanced weight. Alternate wiring options may be necessary in the rare case of vehicles with 50/50 weight distribution

Basically?! Stolen from the Hydroholics website !? thats wot im hoping to achieve

[fatdaddy]

but what do you expect the ones you are getting quotes for to do.......................................

[Tony100]

That^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?? that exactly how i told the guy from related i wanted it to do!

Why dont u think it will work ??

[fatdaddy]

look up to the red bit Tony.................. we are discussing LOWRIDER  components in this section.

and this bit

If you want an off the shelf well spec'd system tailored for your car and you are after slamming it when you park and minimal movement then go to Rayvern and save yourself a lot of hassle.

and this bit from weeks ago

DON T let some one not familiar with how lowrider systems work advise you on what to use or buy, no matter how much experience with hydraulics they have. There are good  reason why we use what we do. When Wayne and Derrie took over MH they showed system components to the designer at Wayne's place as they where going to start producing in house UK stuff. This was a firm with decades of Hydro experience but they just couldn't believe that it would work at all with what D was showing them. It wasnt till they saw a well put together proper high volt system and had explanations in depth that it clicked............ normal Hydro guys dont get it.

It's not a matter of if they will work or not. They will do exactly what Related tell you they will do but what they do is of no use to someone who is trying to build a LOWRIDER.

[fatdaddy]

I had creddited those US manifolds with being more sophisticated that they are 
Looking at the pictures again they are just a prettied up/better flow version of an industrial manifold and will still give the very restricted moves that industrials will.
All they are is a pressure gallery with four feed valves [to rams] and one return valve [to tank].
All the clues to the performance are in the description...................
You can lift then drop everything separately BUT you cant lift and drop at the same time as with a proper system......... hold your hand out in front of you and shake it side to side like a "panic" move. One side goes down as the other goes up [nice and fast  ].
Now put your hand above a table [little finger and thumb are sides of the car] and do it so one side goes down without moving the other. Then the other side goes down without moving the side that first went ........... how fast can you do it now ?
Also once you have dumped anything, next time you hit an up switch time is taken to re pressurise the gallery and all the pipe leading to it before anything moves.

The Manis I made replicated true "Lowrider" functions. So a four corner Mani had four up valves, four drop valves AND four check valves. This allowed  it to still give all the moves of a four pump system from one pump. Better still you could feed four pumps into the Mani and push all the flow to the front or a side or wherever you wanted.
Very time consuming [and so no profit] to make on a manual milling machine but way too expensive to have made on CNC.
Using one on my pickup gave four pump moves and chipping from two pumps AND controlled the three stage bed lift AND the spinning bed from the same pumps............. all at the same time if I could keep up with the switches 

[Tony100]

delta dumps £60 each

[fatdaddy]

which size valve is that?
what size ports and how many?
machined/polished/raw blocks ?
which terminals on the coils ?